Voltage spikes generally occur when switching on and off motorized components like window motors,wiper motors and even the starter. They are created when the magnetic field collapses in the motor when turning it off. These voltage spikes can cause damage to sensitive computer components, found in later vehicles, causing the vehicle to run poorly and/or inefficiently.
A weak or bad battery and loose or corroded connections can aid in the destructive forces of voltage spikes. A good battery acts as a large capacitor to absorb these spikes, so it is important to maintain the battery in good condition and keep the connections clean and tight to help prevent this kind of damage.
Proper and clean grounding of components is very important also. When a voltage spike is forced across a path of least resistance it can literally fry other lessor components and maybe start a fire in the vehicle. Though rare, it sometimes has happened. Have you ever seen a car on the freeway on fire?
Alternators have some built in spike absorbing parts. Many of the older units had capacitors (also referred to as condensers) either inside or mounted on the back of the units. In later vehicles, they used avalanche diodes to do the trick by allowing excess voltage to leak past the diode in reverse, sort of like a pressure relief valve.
Bottom line and I'll repeat, always maintain a good battery in the vehicle and make sure to keep the connections clean. Don't keep charging a weak battery to get by, until it quits all together. By then the damage may have already occured. Proper maintanence can give you more years of trouble free service!
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Tuesday, December 28, 2010
Monday, December 13, 2010
About Alternator Functioning
It's been a couple of weeks since I've posted anything. It's been dead in the shop and nothing had sparked any ideas for a post until last week. A Delco CS130 series alternator from the mid 1990's GM products came in with erratic charging problems and was overcharging. It had a bad regulator, which is the part that controls the output of the alternator. It was also a low quality rebuild from a parts store and probably wouldn't have failed if the rebuilding company had used a better quality regulator.
Anyway this sparked an idea for posting something about alternator functions, to help you diagnose your trouble. Generally if an alternator is not charging on the vehicle, it could be any of the components. Each manufacturer and model of alternator has it's own quirks and reasons they generally fail, so without knowing what your alternator is, it would take hours and hours of writing, that could fill a large book to cover all of what's out there. There are however a few tell tail signs to look for when diagnosing your trouble that might help determine what's wrong.
If the alternator overcharges and is cooking the battery, or charges for a minute when you first start the vehicle when it's cold then quits, then it's most likely it's the regulator. If the regulator internally has a loose ground it can also cause it to overcharge. A totally non charging alternator can be the regulator but it's usually some other component. Another component that can cause overcharging, but is very rare and usually will cause other alternator damage is a shorted rotor. I've only come across a shorted rotor about four or five times in the 11 years I have been working on them.
If the alternator only charges intermittently, whether hot or cold and progressively gets worse, then it's probably the brushes worn out. It can also be a loose connection either inside or outside the alternator. Check to make sure all the wire connections are tight! This is more common on Ford alternators and on Denso (Nippondenso) alternators that are used on Toyota and Chrysler products but can happen on other models.
Alternators that make a howling noise and may charge at a reduced rate, or not at all, usually has a bad rectifier. A bad stator or a combination of both can also cause this condition. This is more common on Delco alternators of the 80's and 90's GM vehicles. (GM, isn't that now Government Motors?)
If the alternator is making a loud popping noise or roars like a waterfall, it will usually have bad bearings. It could either be charging or not. A squealing noise is generally not a bearing noise and is more than likely the belt slipping, due to either being worn, adjusted too loose or a weak tensioner. The only exception to this is when the bearing shells or galls out, but it will usually lock up at that moment. If the bearing comes apart and looses it's balls or rollers it will usually cause more expensive damage to the alternator and may be cheaper to just replace the entire unit, rather than fixing it. Of course only a qualified rebuilder can only tell you if it's that bad!
Anyway this sparked an idea for posting something about alternator functions, to help you diagnose your trouble. Generally if an alternator is not charging on the vehicle, it could be any of the components. Each manufacturer and model of alternator has it's own quirks and reasons they generally fail, so without knowing what your alternator is, it would take hours and hours of writing, that could fill a large book to cover all of what's out there. There are however a few tell tail signs to look for when diagnosing your trouble that might help determine what's wrong.
If the alternator overcharges and is cooking the battery, or charges for a minute when you first start the vehicle when it's cold then quits, then it's most likely it's the regulator. If the regulator internally has a loose ground it can also cause it to overcharge. A totally non charging alternator can be the regulator but it's usually some other component. Another component that can cause overcharging, but is very rare and usually will cause other alternator damage is a shorted rotor. I've only come across a shorted rotor about four or five times in the 11 years I have been working on them.
If the alternator only charges intermittently, whether hot or cold and progressively gets worse, then it's probably the brushes worn out. It can also be a loose connection either inside or outside the alternator. Check to make sure all the wire connections are tight! This is more common on Ford alternators and on Denso (Nippondenso) alternators that are used on Toyota and Chrysler products but can happen on other models.
Alternators that make a howling noise and may charge at a reduced rate, or not at all, usually has a bad rectifier. A bad stator or a combination of both can also cause this condition. This is more common on Delco alternators of the 80's and 90's GM vehicles. (GM, isn't that now Government Motors?)
If the alternator is making a loud popping noise or roars like a waterfall, it will usually have bad bearings. It could either be charging or not. A squealing noise is generally not a bearing noise and is more than likely the belt slipping, due to either being worn, adjusted too loose or a weak tensioner. The only exception to this is when the bearing shells or galls out, but it will usually lock up at that moment. If the bearing comes apart and looses it's balls or rollers it will usually cause more expensive damage to the alternator and may be cheaper to just replace the entire unit, rather than fixing it. Of course only a qualified rebuilder can only tell you if it's that bad!
Friday, November 26, 2010
You Get What You Pay For!
Recently, I've had a couple of customers tell me that they can buy older style (1970's era) Delco starters at the local parts stores for $39.00. One of them had already purchased a marine sealed one for that price with a one year warranty. How is this possible? How can parts stores purchase these, in today's prices, for a low enough price to sell them for that amount and still make a decent mark up?
I'll tell you! They have to cut quality and are rebuilt in third world countries, where they pay probably less then a dollar an hour for the work. The problem with this is that both quality and workmanship suffer. Quality suffers by way of using inferior parts, used parts that should not be reused without rewinding or repair and new parts of very low quality with inferior metals and plastics that work fine when new, but after being in the extreme temperature changes and vibrations under the hood, will eventually fail, sooner rather than later. Many won't make the one year warranty. Workmanship also suffers in that many of the workers are unskilled and don't really know how to watch for problems, when assembling or stripping or leaving bolts and screws loose, which will also cause problems. How many of these units have you taken on and off, for warranty after warranty, until you finally get a good one?
How do I know this? I've worked on many of these units and seen first hand the poor quality! I stood there and told my customer I couldn't believe how much they are charging for these units because I know how much I have to put into one, to repair it.
Speaking about this particular starter, on average if the unit comes in dirty and needs a standard rebuild, using quality wear parts like brushes, bushings, drive and solenoid, the parts alone cost about $25.00 and labor would usually average around $42.00. That's a total of $67.00! Now If I have to replace the armature and/or field coils, that substantially increases the repair cost. To order a 'quality' rebuilt or new starter including shipping, cost me around a hundred bucks! Add my markup of around $40.00 and you see that I can't even begin to compete cost wise with the parts stores. I can however compete on quality, so if you only care about cost, then you get what you pay for! If you want a unit to last and be trouble free, you should take it to a qualified and trusted rebuilder and pay the additional cost to repair yours or get a quality unit!
I'll tell you! They have to cut quality and are rebuilt in third world countries, where they pay probably less then a dollar an hour for the work. The problem with this is that both quality and workmanship suffer. Quality suffers by way of using inferior parts, used parts that should not be reused without rewinding or repair and new parts of very low quality with inferior metals and plastics that work fine when new, but after being in the extreme temperature changes and vibrations under the hood, will eventually fail, sooner rather than later. Many won't make the one year warranty. Workmanship also suffers in that many of the workers are unskilled and don't really know how to watch for problems, when assembling or stripping or leaving bolts and screws loose, which will also cause problems. How many of these units have you taken on and off, for warranty after warranty, until you finally get a good one?
How do I know this? I've worked on many of these units and seen first hand the poor quality! I stood there and told my customer I couldn't believe how much they are charging for these units because I know how much I have to put into one, to repair it.
Speaking about this particular starter, on average if the unit comes in dirty and needs a standard rebuild, using quality wear parts like brushes, bushings, drive and solenoid, the parts alone cost about $25.00 and labor would usually average around $42.00. That's a total of $67.00! Now If I have to replace the armature and/or field coils, that substantially increases the repair cost. To order a 'quality' rebuilt or new starter including shipping, cost me around a hundred bucks! Add my markup of around $40.00 and you see that I can't even begin to compete cost wise with the parts stores. I can however compete on quality, so if you only care about cost, then you get what you pay for! If you want a unit to last and be trouble free, you should take it to a qualified and trusted rebuilder and pay the additional cost to repair yours or get a quality unit!
Tuesday, November 16, 2010
Poor Quality, Part 4 Ferguson Tractor Starter
This Delco starter, which looked like a rebuild from someone, came in because the customer complained that it was dragging really bad. I tested it on the bench and it for sure was dragging. It sounded like the bushings were worn out.
After taking it apart I found that the bushings were alright and it failed because the brushes were worn out all the way down to the metal brush holders and one had worn half way through the brush screw. The reason this starter failed is wrong brushes. They ended up using a smaller brush out of a later unit that didn't belong in this one. Either someone couldn't find the right brushes or purposely picked up the wrong ones. Either way, the starter prematurely failed.
Because this particular starter is a smaller diameter unit and has tight clearances, the longer standard brushes are too long and it takes a short but wide brush with offset screw holes to properly work. I Installed the correct brushes and trued up the armatures commutator, which was chewed up by the brush holders rubbing against it, and finally got it going again.
So this shows that if the right parts are used and someone watches their own workmanship to make sure everything is correct, you'll have a unit that lasts, instead of fails!
After taking it apart I found that the bushings were alright and it failed because the brushes were worn out all the way down to the metal brush holders and one had worn half way through the brush screw. The reason this starter failed is wrong brushes. They ended up using a smaller brush out of a later unit that didn't belong in this one. Either someone couldn't find the right brushes or purposely picked up the wrong ones. Either way, the starter prematurely failed.
Because this particular starter is a smaller diameter unit and has tight clearances, the longer standard brushes are too long and it takes a short but wide brush with offset screw holes to properly work. I Installed the correct brushes and trued up the armatures commutator, which was chewed up by the brush holders rubbing against it, and finally got it going again.
So this shows that if the right parts are used and someone watches their own workmanship to make sure everything is correct, you'll have a unit that lasts, instead of fails!
Thursday, November 11, 2010
Testing Generators on Vehicle or Tractor, Part 2
To fully understand this post, I suggest reading Part 1 first!
'B' circuit generators, like what is on Ford products, differ from 'A' circuit generators by the way they are controlled. To test a 'B' circuit generator on the vehicle, remove the field 'F' wire from the generator and set it aside so it won't touch anything, then using a short jumper wire, jump across to the 'ARM' or 'GEN' terminal on the generator or better yet, use a longer wire and jump to the hot side of the battery, which could either be positive or negative depending on which side is grounded. This will kick the generator into full charge which can either be read by the gauge in the dash or using a meter across the battery. Be careful, because I've found that these generators are usually have a higher amp output than the 'A' circuit generators and will really cook!
To polarize a 'B' circuit system, After everything is hooked up and before starting the engine, Remove the field wire from the REGULATOR'S 'F' terminal and touch that wire to the 'BAT' terminal on the regulator. Just hold it on, for only a second and when you remove it there should be a spark. Warning, do not touch the regulators 'F' field terminal to the 'BAT' battery terminal or you will fry the regulator! (As always follow the instructions you receive with the new regulator if they differ with what is written here!)
'B' circuit generators, like what is on Ford products, differ from 'A' circuit generators by the way they are controlled. To test a 'B' circuit generator on the vehicle, remove the field 'F' wire from the generator and set it aside so it won't touch anything, then using a short jumper wire, jump across to the 'ARM' or 'GEN' terminal on the generator or better yet, use a longer wire and jump to the hot side of the battery, which could either be positive or negative depending on which side is grounded. This will kick the generator into full charge which can either be read by the gauge in the dash or using a meter across the battery. Be careful, because I've found that these generators are usually have a higher amp output than the 'A' circuit generators and will really cook!
To polarize a 'B' circuit system, After everything is hooked up and before starting the engine, Remove the field wire from the REGULATOR'S 'F' terminal and touch that wire to the 'BAT' terminal on the regulator. Just hold it on, for only a second and when you remove it there should be a spark. Warning, do not touch the regulators 'F' field terminal to the 'BAT' battery terminal or you will fry the regulator! (As always follow the instructions you receive with the new regulator if they differ with what is written here!)
Thursday, October 28, 2010
Testing Generators on the Vehicle or Tractor, Part 1
Testing 'A' circuit generators are pretty easy. First, disconnect the 'F' terminal either at the generator or the regulator. You must do this to prevent damaging the regulator if it is still good. Start the engine and have someone watch the ammeter (which is the gauge that should be being used with a generator) and then use a jumper wire and ground the 'F' terminal on the generator. If the generator is good, it will go into full charge instantly and show that way on the meter. What ever you do, don't touch the 'F' terminal on the regulator when you do this.
If the generator does go into full charge then it is probably good. So after you reconnect the 'F' wire, if it doesn't charge then the problem is probably the regulator and will need replaced. You could also remove the regulator's cap and try to clean the contacts to see if it will work. Also make sure the regulator has a good ground as that will also cause it to not work.
One last thing you can try, is to re-polarize the regulator. This has never worked for me, as my problems have always been elsewhere, but it's worth a try. To polarize the regulator on an 'A' circuit system, With the engine off and everything connected including the battery, (positive or negative ground) take a jumper wire and momentarily touch the regulators 'BAT' terminal to the 'ARM' (or 'GEN' terminal, which ever way it is marked). Only hold the wire on it for a second and them remove it. It will spark when removing it and that is normal. If there is no spark, check the wiring to make sure you have battery juice to the 'BAT' terminal by checking it with a test light or meter. Once again, DO NOT touch the 'F' terminal or it will instantly fry the regulator. (My directions for polarization are only general and you should follow the directions you receive with the new regulator if they differ from what I have stated here!)
On some regulators the 'ARM' terminal is in back or underneath and may be hard to access. In that case you can jump from the 'BAT' to the 'A' terminal on the generator as the wire from the 'ARM' terminal goes directly to the 'A' terminal.
One final thought today, most regulators used with 'A' circuit Delco generators have either three or four terminals. The three terminal units terminals will be marked 'BAT', 'ARM' (or 'GEN') and 'F'. Four terminal units are marked 'L', 'BAT', 'F' and the terminal in back or on bottom 'ARM'. The 'L' terminal on the four terminal unit, if used, is for the vehicle's or tractor's lights and is usually wired directly to the light switch.
I will cover 'B' circuit generators in the next post.
If the generator does go into full charge then it is probably good. So after you reconnect the 'F' wire, if it doesn't charge then the problem is probably the regulator and will need replaced. You could also remove the regulator's cap and try to clean the contacts to see if it will work. Also make sure the regulator has a good ground as that will also cause it to not work.
One last thing you can try, is to re-polarize the regulator. This has never worked for me, as my problems have always been elsewhere, but it's worth a try. To polarize the regulator on an 'A' circuit system, With the engine off and everything connected including the battery, (positive or negative ground) take a jumper wire and momentarily touch the regulators 'BAT' terminal to the 'ARM' (or 'GEN' terminal, which ever way it is marked). Only hold the wire on it for a second and them remove it. It will spark when removing it and that is normal. If there is no spark, check the wiring to make sure you have battery juice to the 'BAT' terminal by checking it with a test light or meter. Once again, DO NOT touch the 'F' terminal or it will instantly fry the regulator. (My directions for polarization are only general and you should follow the directions you receive with the new regulator if they differ from what I have stated here!)
On some regulators the 'ARM' terminal is in back or underneath and may be hard to access. In that case you can jump from the 'BAT' to the 'A' terminal on the generator as the wire from the 'ARM' terminal goes directly to the 'A' terminal.
One final thought today, most regulators used with 'A' circuit Delco generators have either three or four terminals. The three terminal units terminals will be marked 'BAT', 'ARM' (or 'GEN') and 'F'. Four terminal units are marked 'L', 'BAT', 'F' and the terminal in back or on bottom 'ARM'. The 'L' terminal on the four terminal unit, if used, is for the vehicle's or tractor's lights and is usually wired directly to the light switch.
I will cover 'B' circuit generators in the next post.
Monday, October 18, 2010
Generators, 'A' or 'B' Circuit?
I thought I'd throw in a little information about auto and tractor generators this week. Please consider this information as general in nature. You should find an experienced electrical technician for proper identification and testing.
The main difference in the various generators that were produced in older vehicles and tractors is that there were either 'A' circuit or 'B' circuit units. What this means is how the units output, is controlled by the regulator, regulating the field current (to the 'F' terminal on the generator). In the 'A' circuit generators, which were mainly Delco units, were controlled by the regulator varying the ground to the field. In 'B' circuit generators, the regulator applied current to the field, which was internally grounded.
Most 'A' circuit units were on GM products and many farm and industrial tractors. 'B' circuit units were mainly found on Ford products and possibly industrial units, but there were a few 'A' circuit Ford tractor units produced. Later generators on Ford tractors were all Lucas brand 'B' circuit generators. Other manufacturers like Autolite and Prestolite made generators also, and they could be either 'A' or 'B' circuit. Delco may have made a 'B' circuit generator, but I've never came across one!
I will offer a little testing and advice for generators in the next post!
The main difference in the various generators that were produced in older vehicles and tractors is that there were either 'A' circuit or 'B' circuit units. What this means is how the units output, is controlled by the regulator, regulating the field current (to the 'F' terminal on the generator). In the 'A' circuit generators, which were mainly Delco units, were controlled by the regulator varying the ground to the field. In 'B' circuit generators, the regulator applied current to the field, which was internally grounded.
Most 'A' circuit units were on GM products and many farm and industrial tractors. 'B' circuit units were mainly found on Ford products and possibly industrial units, but there were a few 'A' circuit Ford tractor units produced. Later generators on Ford tractors were all Lucas brand 'B' circuit generators. Other manufacturers like Autolite and Prestolite made generators also, and they could be either 'A' or 'B' circuit. Delco may have made a 'B' circuit generator, but I've never came across one!
I will offer a little testing and advice for generators in the next post!
Tuesday, October 12, 2010
Fewer Breakdowns
I've been traveling the last week and a half and noticed that there are fewer cars broke down on the road than we used to see, say 30 years ago. Technology has made them last longer and made than more reliable than earlier vehicles. Just considering the shear number of vehicles out there, you'd think there should be hundreds of broke down vehicle on the road. With the advances in tire design, you seldom even see flat tires out there either. Unfortunately, the trade off being that you can no longer work on your own cars with just basic mechanical skills any more! Is this a good thing or a bad thing?
Once these cars quit running they must be towed to a mechanic to get them running again. I remember many times on my old 60's to 70's cars and pickups, being able to repair them on the road or able to limp them home where I could fix them. Those were the days!
Once these cars quit running they must be towed to a mechanic to get them running again. I remember many times on my old 60's to 70's cars and pickups, being able to repair them on the road or able to limp them home where I could fix them. Those were the days!
Monday, October 4, 2010
Doctors VS. Mechanics, Who Should Be Paid More?
If you think about this for a minute and compair the two jobs, you may see that the mechanic may actually have a tougher and harder job than most doctors.
First off, the human body is only made in two models, male and female! Though there are different sizes and ages that play a factor in their treatment, basicly the internal organs are all the same and don't change when a new baby comes along. Granted there are always new technics and drugs for treatment that come about and new diseases that pop up, not all doctors will learn all of these as only specialists will come along to learn and use some them.
Now look at all the automobiles coming off the rack each and every year. Consider all the manufacturers and all the models of vehicles they produce. Then throw in all the different engine sizes and transmission options and even body options and everything is different and nothing is interchangable, none of them have the same readings when testing and diagnosing. Every year they produce new models with something more complex and difficult to diagnose and work on! So when you bring your car into the mechanic, he now has to go online and learn how to diagnose and fix your car. Basic mechanic skills that were learned years ago that would allow a mechanic to fix almost any car, do not come into play now. Granted they help and without them they would not even know where to start, they really only aid in physically identifing and changing the defective parts.
Every time a patient goes to see the doctor, the doctor relies on his knowledge and experience to treat the patient. When a person brings in their devective vehicle, the mechanic is faced with a literal nightmare of wires and components that he has to stop and learn how to fix on the spot!
Who do you think should be paid more?
First off, the human body is only made in two models, male and female! Though there are different sizes and ages that play a factor in their treatment, basicly the internal organs are all the same and don't change when a new baby comes along. Granted there are always new technics and drugs for treatment that come about and new diseases that pop up, not all doctors will learn all of these as only specialists will come along to learn and use some them.
Now look at all the automobiles coming off the rack each and every year. Consider all the manufacturers and all the models of vehicles they produce. Then throw in all the different engine sizes and transmission options and even body options and everything is different and nothing is interchangable, none of them have the same readings when testing and diagnosing. Every year they produce new models with something more complex and difficult to diagnose and work on! So when you bring your car into the mechanic, he now has to go online and learn how to diagnose and fix your car. Basic mechanic skills that were learned years ago that would allow a mechanic to fix almost any car, do not come into play now. Granted they help and without them they would not even know where to start, they really only aid in physically identifing and changing the defective parts.
Every time a patient goes to see the doctor, the doctor relies on his knowledge and experience to treat the patient. When a person brings in their devective vehicle, the mechanic is faced with a literal nightmare of wires and components that he has to stop and learn how to fix on the spot!
Who do you think should be paid more?
Friday, September 24, 2010
Too Many Different Parts!
It's been dead in the shop, so not much has been happening or has been worth mentioning, except an issue a customer had with a starter off a 2002 Mercedes CLK. He ordered a starter off the Internet and then brought the vehicle to the mechanics shop, that's across the street from my shop, to swap out the starter. They had trouble installing the new starter because it was about an inch longer than the old one and would not go into place!
So the customer brought the old starter to my shop to see if I could fix it right then! Because of the thousands and thousands of different parts that don't interchange I didn't have or wouldn't even stock the part I needed to repair his starter. Then they brought me the new starter to see if I could change the parts needed over to the old starter, but as it turned out the new starter was also larger in diameter than the old starter and the parts wouldn't interchange. With the customer's permission, the mechanic ground out some metal in the frame or something, so he could get the longer starter into position.
Checking the computer I found that Mercedes used two different models of starter for that vehicle and engine size. Why? Why in the hell did they do that? Who's the SOB who thought up using more than one starter? Why didn't they just produce one starter for the vehicle or for a large number of their vehicles! This practice, used by all the manufacturers, has caused a large number of headaches for a lot of people and wasted my time, my customer's time and the mechanics time dealing with this issue. Maybe if the auto manufacturers had to pay us for all the lost time dealing with issues like this, they would change the way they built cars and made them simpler and more interchangeable!
So the customer brought the old starter to my shop to see if I could fix it right then! Because of the thousands and thousands of different parts that don't interchange I didn't have or wouldn't even stock the part I needed to repair his starter. Then they brought me the new starter to see if I could change the parts needed over to the old starter, but as it turned out the new starter was also larger in diameter than the old starter and the parts wouldn't interchange. With the customer's permission, the mechanic ground out some metal in the frame or something, so he could get the longer starter into position.
Checking the computer I found that Mercedes used two different models of starter for that vehicle and engine size. Why? Why in the hell did they do that? Who's the SOB who thought up using more than one starter? Why didn't they just produce one starter for the vehicle or for a large number of their vehicles! This practice, used by all the manufacturers, has caused a large number of headaches for a lot of people and wasted my time, my customer's time and the mechanics time dealing with this issue. Maybe if the auto manufacturers had to pay us for all the lost time dealing with issues like this, they would change the way they built cars and made them simpler and more interchangeable!
Thursday, September 16, 2010
Disassembling your unit and then bringing it to me to fix!
There are several reasons people take their starter or alternator apart. One is they are usually don't have any money to buy a replacement, can't find one at a salvage and hope they can figure out what's wrong and repair it themselves to save some money. Another is that they want to find out how bad it is and whether it's worth repairing. Some people think that if they disassemble it, it will save them some of the labor expense of having me tear it down. I should also add that some people don't trust the person they will have work on it and don't want to get ripped off by being over-charged for parts they don't need. Unfortunately, there are some unscrupulous repair men out there that do rip some people off!
A lot of times customers quickly find out that these newer units are not like the old Delco units that were simple to work on and are too complicated to fix! Whatever the reason, they end up bringing me the mess they have created and want me to fix it. This presents me with several problems. The first is, since they took it apart, I may not know how to put it back together again. This was a real problem the first three or so years I was doing this business. Though this sounds like no big deal, you have no idea the hundreds or even thousands of variations of starters and alternators there are out there!
With my experience now, I can usually figure out how they go together, but there are parts that can be indexed in several different positions, housings that align in different positions and internal parts that can be switched making the unit operate incorrectly. Since I didn't take it apart and mark the positions, I have to guess how it goes back together when I reassemble it and I may have to re-take it apart several times to reposition something to get it to work properly!
Another problem is that they leave some of the parts at home, or worse they loose them! There are some units out there that have small loose parts that the customer doesn't even know are there, that will fall out and they don't even notice them.
Many of the units have complicated construction and if they don't know the 'tricks of the trade' so to speak, the customers will also sometimes damage or break 'beyond repair' some of the components, trying to disassemble or work on the units themselves!
The last thing is that now I can't test the unit, which could help me figure out what's wrong with it. Testing it before hand can help me find defective parts the won't show up otherwise, until I have fixed the other problems, reassembled and tested the unit. This would end up requiring me to disassemble the unit again and replace more parts, sometimes doubling the labor expense!
Instead of saving the customer some of the labor costs, it usually ends up costing them more to repair the unit, than if they had just brought it to me still all together! So, y'all go right ahead and disassemble you units so I can make a lot more money! Cha-ching!
A lot of times customers quickly find out that these newer units are not like the old Delco units that were simple to work on and are too complicated to fix! Whatever the reason, they end up bringing me the mess they have created and want me to fix it. This presents me with several problems. The first is, since they took it apart, I may not know how to put it back together again. This was a real problem the first three or so years I was doing this business. Though this sounds like no big deal, you have no idea the hundreds or even thousands of variations of starters and alternators there are out there!
With my experience now, I can usually figure out how they go together, but there are parts that can be indexed in several different positions, housings that align in different positions and internal parts that can be switched making the unit operate incorrectly. Since I didn't take it apart and mark the positions, I have to guess how it goes back together when I reassemble it and I may have to re-take it apart several times to reposition something to get it to work properly!
Another problem is that they leave some of the parts at home, or worse they loose them! There are some units out there that have small loose parts that the customer doesn't even know are there, that will fall out and they don't even notice them.
Many of the units have complicated construction and if they don't know the 'tricks of the trade' so to speak, the customers will also sometimes damage or break 'beyond repair' some of the components, trying to disassemble or work on the units themselves!
The last thing is that now I can't test the unit, which could help me figure out what's wrong with it. Testing it before hand can help me find defective parts the won't show up otherwise, until I have fixed the other problems, reassembled and tested the unit. This would end up requiring me to disassemble the unit again and replace more parts, sometimes doubling the labor expense!
Instead of saving the customer some of the labor costs, it usually ends up costing them more to repair the unit, than if they had just brought it to me still all together! So, y'all go right ahead and disassemble you units so I can make a lot more money! Cha-ching!
Friday, September 10, 2010
Working on 2000 and Later Vehicles
The following is my opinion and just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth!
I believe that if you are not an ASE certified mechanic and have the proper testing equipment, then you have no business going under the hood of a 2000 or later vehicle! No old school procedures will work when trying to diagnose problems or doing any repairs and will probably cause more expensive repairs by damaging sensitive computer components!
I believe that if you are not an ASE certified mechanic and have the proper testing equipment, then you have no business going under the hood of a 2000 or later vehicle! No old school procedures will work when trying to diagnose problems or doing any repairs and will probably cause more expensive repairs by damaging sensitive computer components!
I know all you do-it-yourself people out there think you should be able to fix anything and have had few problems working on vehicles up to now, but these later vehicles just don’t work that way. I personally have quit working on 2000 and later alternators. I’ve had too many failures that have cost me more money than I ever made off the unit and I don’t believe the fault was mine or the unit I sold them, but I had to warrant them anyway. I can’t count on the installer to take the proper care when hooking up the wires, that he doesn’t create a spark and damage the sensitive regulator circuitry!
What makes matters worse is that if the battery goes dead, you have to have the car towed to a dealer or a qualified mechanic to reprogram the cars computer. You can't jump start it and you can't just change the battery. Makes you wonder how much it will cost you every time the battery runs down because you left on a light or the battery fails. It's been my experience that I only get about three and a half years out of a battery and I don't want to buy one prematurely just to keep me from paying the dealer an extra hundred bucks to reprogram the computer in my car. To top this off you have to have a mechanic or a dealer to change the damn battery because they have to hook up a power source to the vehicles computer while removing and installing the battery to keep the computer active! WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!
The problems with these are both political and the technology race. The damn politicians keep passing laws for vehicle safety and emissions. Though some of these laws have made things cleaner and safer, there seems to be overkill to some of this, which has forced auto manufacturers to come up with technology that will keep up with the mandates. This technology costs lots of money and causes extra problems when the car malfunctions. Also, it is a ploy to make you have to bring your car to the dealer and it also makes the repairs so expensive! Who pays for all of this? WE do! We do, in higher prices for new cars. We do, for way overpriced diagnostic and repair costs. We do, in simple repairs we should have been able to do ourselves but now have to pay the dealer!
This makes me wonder what's going to happen to the poorer people in this country. There are millions of them, they cant afford the payments, taxes and insurance on a new car and the older cars are wearing out. Even if they could afford a new car on extended payments, the warranty runs out and only one breakdown would render their car useless, as they could never be able to afford the cost of the repairs.
The politicians of both parties are so out of touch with the common people of this country that they only serve to hinder the problem instead of finding solutions to the problems! I see no end in site toward a solution to all of this short of stop buying new cars and demand that the manufacturers build simpler, easier to fix cars!
This makes me wonder what's going to happen to the poorer people in this country. There are millions of them, they cant afford the payments, taxes and insurance on a new car and the older cars are wearing out. Even if they could afford a new car on extended payments, the warranty runs out and only one breakdown would render their car useless, as they could never be able to afford the cost of the repairs.
The politicians of both parties are so out of touch with the common people of this country that they only serve to hinder the problem instead of finding solutions to the problems! I see no end in site toward a solution to all of this short of stop buying new cars and demand that the manufacturers build simpler, easier to fix cars!
Oh how I miss the days when cars were simple to work on!
Tuesday, September 7, 2010
Starter Doesn’t Engage!
Once again, I’m posting this mostly for the benefit of my local customers, but everyone should read this, as it may help you describe your problem to your rebuilder!
If this sounds like I’m angry, I’m not! Just please, please, please, don’t come into my shop and tell me that your starter doesn’t engage!!! The first thing that does, is piss me off, because now I have to stand there for a half an hour, quizzing the person on what exactly his starter is doing and explain to him how his starter works to narrow down the problem. The second thing that will happen is I’m gonna get in your face and ask, What part of it doesn’t engage? starting the conservation, which most people look at me with a dumbfounded look on their face, like I should know what their talking about!
The problem with saying ‘My starter doesn’t engage’ is that in most starters, there are numerous parts that engage other parts, and the definition of engage, means different things to different people. One person will have a starter that spins but doesn’t turn the engine over. Another person will have one that just clicks when you turn the key. Another person’s starter will be completely dead. They will all come into my shop and say their starter doesn’t engage, but all have different problems.
Let me explain just what occurs when a starter is activated. When the vehicle operator turns the key to the start position, an electrical current flows into the solenoid’s coil and ‘engages’ the solenoid, pulling in the plunger. The plunger usually does two jobs; It pushes or pulls the drive gear into the flywheel ‘engaging’ or meshing with it, also making contact between the battery cable and motor terminal ‘engaging’ the starter motor and starts it spinning. As with most modern starters, the motor ‘engages’ a gear reduction, which ‘engages’ the output shaft, which ‘engages’ the drive body, which ‘engages’ the drive gear through a one-way slip clutch, which finally ‘engages’ the flywheel, rolling the engine over and all this happens within a second or so.
As you can see, there are a lot of parts engaging with others, so saying that the starter doesn’t engage, doesn’t tell me anything!!!
Here is a list of the best responses for the question of ‘what exactly is the starter doing or not doing?’ or (what’s wrong with your starter?)
1. Starter spins, but doesn’t crank the engine. (This is usually a bad drive or stripped gears in the gear reduction.)
2. Starter clicks only once each time you turn the key. (Usually a bad solenoid, but could also be a bad battery cable.)
3. Starter rapidly clicks or chatters when you turn the key. (This is almost always low voltage to the starter, usually a weak battery or corroded cables or connections.)
4. Starter is completely dead, no noise, nothing. (This is anything form worn out brushes to completely burned up and beyond repair. It also could be a dead battery or a bad battery cable. Don’t let any of this prevent you from getting it checked out before spending a bunch of money on a new starter.)
There you have it! Using these terms to describe your problem will expedite your repair and save you time and money, and me a lot of headaches!
If this sounds like I’m angry, I’m not! Just please, please, please, don’t come into my shop and tell me that your starter doesn’t engage!!! The first thing that does, is piss me off, because now I have to stand there for a half an hour, quizzing the person on what exactly his starter is doing and explain to him how his starter works to narrow down the problem. The second thing that will happen is I’m gonna get in your face and ask, What part of it doesn’t engage? starting the conservation, which most people look at me with a dumbfounded look on their face, like I should know what their talking about!
The problem with saying ‘My starter doesn’t engage’ is that in most starters, there are numerous parts that engage other parts, and the definition of engage, means different things to different people. One person will have a starter that spins but doesn’t turn the engine over. Another person will have one that just clicks when you turn the key. Another person’s starter will be completely dead. They will all come into my shop and say their starter doesn’t engage, but all have different problems.
Let me explain just what occurs when a starter is activated. When the vehicle operator turns the key to the start position, an electrical current flows into the solenoid’s coil and ‘engages’ the solenoid, pulling in the plunger. The plunger usually does two jobs; It pushes or pulls the drive gear into the flywheel ‘engaging’ or meshing with it, also making contact between the battery cable and motor terminal ‘engaging’ the starter motor and starts it spinning. As with most modern starters, the motor ‘engages’ a gear reduction, which ‘engages’ the output shaft, which ‘engages’ the drive body, which ‘engages’ the drive gear through a one-way slip clutch, which finally ‘engages’ the flywheel, rolling the engine over and all this happens within a second or so.
As you can see, there are a lot of parts engaging with others, so saying that the starter doesn’t engage, doesn’t tell me anything!!!
Here is a list of the best responses for the question of ‘what exactly is the starter doing or not doing?’ or (what’s wrong with your starter?)
1. Starter spins, but doesn’t crank the engine. (This is usually a bad drive or stripped gears in the gear reduction.)
2. Starter clicks only once each time you turn the key. (Usually a bad solenoid, but could also be a bad battery cable.)
3. Starter rapidly clicks or chatters when you turn the key. (This is almost always low voltage to the starter, usually a weak battery or corroded cables or connections.)
4. Starter is completely dead, no noise, nothing. (This is anything form worn out brushes to completely burned up and beyond repair. It also could be a dead battery or a bad battery cable. Don’t let any of this prevent you from getting it checked out before spending a bunch of money on a new starter.)
There you have it! Using these terms to describe your problem will expedite your repair and save you time and money, and me a lot of headaches!
Thursday, September 2, 2010
Starter Doesn't Work, Is It The Starter Though?
This happened to me several years ago. I bought an Allis Chalmers model C tractor that was having starter problems. So I thought to myself, 'Hey, I'm in the starter repair business, so I'm sure I can fix this one!'
The starter was dragging so much that it wouldn't hardly roll the engine over a revolution. I first did a load test on the battery to make sure it was good and not the cause and cleaned the cable connections and tried it. It still wouldn't crank properly, so I then removed the starter from the tractor and took it apart. It really wasn't that bad inside, so to make sure I wouldn't have any problems, I changed the wear parts like brushes and bushings. I tested the armature and turned the commutator and checked the field coils for shorts to ground. I also replace the little lever operated switch. Then after lubing it and reassembling it, I put it back on the tractor. It still was dragging and at the same time is now pissin' me off!!!
It pulled the battery down pretty quickly, so I charged it and tried it again. Still wouldn't work but I discovered that the ground cable was getting hot where it bolted to the frame. Since I had new cables handy, I replaced the battery cables and made sure the ground connection was clean. Damn thing still wouldn't work! OOOOooooooooo!!!!
After few choice words and a lot of head scratchin', I pulled the starter back off and went through it again thinking I've must of missed something. I found nothing wrong and reassembled it and put it back on the tractor. Then I thought 'Well, sometimes there are hidden problems that can't be detected with certain units and the only way to know for sure is to replace the starter. So I looked around the shop for a core or parts to build another one, but with no luck. Now mind you, this all is taking place over several months as I only have time to work on the tractor here and there! I would tinker with it now and then to see if I could figure it out without any luck either.
Finally.....The Battery Completely Died! I went and bought a new battery and installed it. That solved all my problems! It's worked great ever since and I sold the tractor to a guy who say's it's still running like a top. I discovered later that I should have cycled the load on the battery about three times to make sure it would hold up.
This just goes to show you that just because your starter doesn't work, it doesn't necessarily mean the starter is actually bad!
The starter was dragging so much that it wouldn't hardly roll the engine over a revolution. I first did a load test on the battery to make sure it was good and not the cause and cleaned the cable connections and tried it. It still wouldn't crank properly, so I then removed the starter from the tractor and took it apart. It really wasn't that bad inside, so to make sure I wouldn't have any problems, I changed the wear parts like brushes and bushings. I tested the armature and turned the commutator and checked the field coils for shorts to ground. I also replace the little lever operated switch. Then after lubing it and reassembling it, I put it back on the tractor. It still was dragging and at the same time is now pissin' me off!!!
It pulled the battery down pretty quickly, so I charged it and tried it again. Still wouldn't work but I discovered that the ground cable was getting hot where it bolted to the frame. Since I had new cables handy, I replaced the battery cables and made sure the ground connection was clean. Damn thing still wouldn't work! OOOOooooooooo!!!!
After few choice words and a lot of head scratchin', I pulled the starter back off and went through it again thinking I've must of missed something. I found nothing wrong and reassembled it and put it back on the tractor. Then I thought 'Well, sometimes there are hidden problems that can't be detected with certain units and the only way to know for sure is to replace the starter. So I looked around the shop for a core or parts to build another one, but with no luck. Now mind you, this all is taking place over several months as I only have time to work on the tractor here and there! I would tinker with it now and then to see if I could figure it out without any luck either.
Finally.....The Battery Completely Died! I went and bought a new battery and installed it. That solved all my problems! It's worked great ever since and I sold the tractor to a guy who say's it's still running like a top. I discovered later that I should have cycled the load on the battery about three times to make sure it would hold up.
This just goes to show you that just because your starter doesn't work, it doesn't necessarily mean the starter is actually bad!
Saturday, August 28, 2010
Poor Quality, Part 4, Dodge Diesel Starter.
This starter, a poor quality rebuild from a parts store, came in with broken switch terminal on the solenoid. After going to all the work to repair this terminal, the solenoid chattered when testing it, indicating that the hold-in coil was bad. Other than a continuity test with the coils, which I performed before doing the repair, I couldn't test the solenoid without doing the repair first.
Now I had to tear the whole starter all apart again and replace the solenoid assembly with one off a core unit. (The solenoid on this particular unit is incorporated into the middle body of the starter and not easily replaceable by just removing and installing outside the unit!) This coupled with the fact that most of the rubber seals were left out by the previous rebuilder and the poor quality of his work, ended up costing my customer 2 & 1/2 times what the initial repair would have. If this had been a quality rebuilt unit, my customer may not have had to bring it to me for repair in the first place!
This is why I'm so down on parts store rebuilds!
Now I had to tear the whole starter all apart again and replace the solenoid assembly with one off a core unit. (The solenoid on this particular unit is incorporated into the middle body of the starter and not easily replaceable by just removing and installing outside the unit!) This coupled with the fact that most of the rubber seals were left out by the previous rebuilder and the poor quality of his work, ended up costing my customer 2 & 1/2 times what the initial repair would have. If this had been a quality rebuilt unit, my customer may not have had to bring it to me for repair in the first place!
This is why I'm so down on parts store rebuilds!
Wednesday, August 25, 2010
Heads-up 2, Antique Tractor Starters
This is in regards to the old Delco screw drive tractor starters that were manufactured pre-1960's.
The idea for this post came in the shop the other day. It was a starter off an old 1940's to 1950's Farmall 'H' or 'M' model tractor. Someone had pulled this starter off a salvage tractor for my customer and he brought it in to be checked. He had tried it and it didn't work.
As it turned out, there was nothing wrong with the starter except the the person who removed the battery cable from the post (terminal, stud or whatever you'd call it) on the starter housing had twisted the post and tore off the field coil terminals inside, breaking the internal connection. Fortunately, I was able to bent the ends around enough to re-solder them to the post and repaired his unit. The rest of the unit looked like it had been recently rebuilt.
The problem here is in the design. There is no square shoulder on the stud (or post) to prevent it from turning, so care must be taken when removing the cable. It is usually best to use a back-up wrench when loosening and removing the top nut and cable. This goes for tightening it also, as turning the stud much more than 10 degrees will start tearing off the coil ends internally.
When I repair these starters, I use a dremel tool or a hack saw and cut a slot in the top of the post, inline with the starter body. This makes it easier to see if the post is turning and allows the use of a screwdriver to hold it, if needed!
The idea for this post came in the shop the other day. It was a starter off an old 1940's to 1950's Farmall 'H' or 'M' model tractor. Someone had pulled this starter off a salvage tractor for my customer and he brought it in to be checked. He had tried it and it didn't work.
As it turned out, there was nothing wrong with the starter except the the person who removed the battery cable from the post (terminal, stud or whatever you'd call it) on the starter housing had twisted the post and tore off the field coil terminals inside, breaking the internal connection. Fortunately, I was able to bent the ends around enough to re-solder them to the post and repaired his unit. The rest of the unit looked like it had been recently rebuilt.
The problem here is in the design. There is no square shoulder on the stud (or post) to prevent it from turning, so care must be taken when removing the cable. It is usually best to use a back-up wrench when loosening and removing the top nut and cable. This goes for tightening it also, as turning the stud much more than 10 degrees will start tearing off the coil ends internally.
When I repair these starters, I use a dremel tool or a hack saw and cut a slot in the top of the post, inline with the starter body. This makes it easier to see if the post is turning and allows the use of a screwdriver to hold it, if needed!
Tuesday, August 17, 2010
How Much Does My Repair Cost?
I'm posting this more for the benefit of my local customers, as different rebuilding companies charge differently for their repairs!
So many people come into my shop asking how much their repair will cost. The problem is, I CAN'T answer that question on the phone or just over the counter. I understand that most people want to save money and are concerned how much everything costs, but for my type of business, that question is difficult to impossible to answer.
The reason for this is that I only charge for the parts I install and the labor, no more, no less. Since I have no idea what is wrong with each unit until I have disassembled and tested all the components, I don't know how many parts will need repaired or replaced, or how long the repair will take. Some units come in all corroded up that it takes twice as long to repair as a similar unit in good condition. Granted there are some common units that I have seen a lot of and that I have an idea on a rough estimate on the repair cost, but it is a very small percentage of what's out there and I'm seeing fewer and fewer of these units as they are getting older and most of the vehicles they are on have gone to the junkyard.
Some companies charge a flat rate for their repair and can give you an exact price, but is this fair and just what are you getting for your money? For an example take a Nippondenso alternator that was used on Dodge/Chrysler products through the 1990's and early 2000's. After about 150,000 miles they start to fail. If they are relatively clean (not oil soaked) the reason they stop working is the brushes wear out and that's all! These units (originals, not aftermarkets) have heavy duty bearings that generally last 300,000 to 400,000 miles, there's no internal regulator to fail (it's in the vehicles computer) and the other parts seldom ever fail! People will go to a parts store and pay around 160 dollars for a poorer quality replacement unit. I can repair this alternator for about 20 bucks and it will last as long as a new one. If this alternator was completely burned up, it would cost well over 200 dollars to repair so that's why I can't answer what it will cost until I have examined the unit.
If your unit only needed something minor and the repair only costs 20 or 30 bucks then you save money. If you have burned up your unit or it's all corroded, then you should have to pay more for the repair. This is the fairest way to charge customers for a repair.
To sum this up, unless you bring your unit into my shop and allow me to properly test it, I can't and won't know how much your repair will cost!
So many people come into my shop asking how much their repair will cost. The problem is, I CAN'T answer that question on the phone or just over the counter. I understand that most people want to save money and are concerned how much everything costs, but for my type of business, that question is difficult to impossible to answer.
The reason for this is that I only charge for the parts I install and the labor, no more, no less. Since I have no idea what is wrong with each unit until I have disassembled and tested all the components, I don't know how many parts will need repaired or replaced, or how long the repair will take. Some units come in all corroded up that it takes twice as long to repair as a similar unit in good condition. Granted there are some common units that I have seen a lot of and that I have an idea on a rough estimate on the repair cost, but it is a very small percentage of what's out there and I'm seeing fewer and fewer of these units as they are getting older and most of the vehicles they are on have gone to the junkyard.
Some companies charge a flat rate for their repair and can give you an exact price, but is this fair and just what are you getting for your money? For an example take a Nippondenso alternator that was used on Dodge/Chrysler products through the 1990's and early 2000's. After about 150,000 miles they start to fail. If they are relatively clean (not oil soaked) the reason they stop working is the brushes wear out and that's all! These units (originals, not aftermarkets) have heavy duty bearings that generally last 300,000 to 400,000 miles, there's no internal regulator to fail (it's in the vehicles computer) and the other parts seldom ever fail! People will go to a parts store and pay around 160 dollars for a poorer quality replacement unit. I can repair this alternator for about 20 bucks and it will last as long as a new one. If this alternator was completely burned up, it would cost well over 200 dollars to repair so that's why I can't answer what it will cost until I have examined the unit.
If your unit only needed something minor and the repair only costs 20 or 30 bucks then you save money. If you have burned up your unit or it's all corroded, then you should have to pay more for the repair. This is the fairest way to charge customers for a repair.
To sum this up, unless you bring your unit into my shop and allow me to properly test it, I can't and won't know how much your repair will cost!
Thursday, August 12, 2010
Pulling Battery Cables To Check The Alternator
What I’m talking about is the old practice of pulling a battery cable off the battery while the engine is running to see if the engine dies due to the alternator not charging.
This is another old-school no-no! First and foremost, this was an unsafe procedure at anytime, let alone being used years ago. If you should be the unfortunate one who had a leaky battery or one that was being overcharged, building up gasses above the battery and then when removing the battery cables, you created a spark, it would cause the battery to explode in your face, throwing acid in your eyes and all over you and everything else. This of course is the worst-case scenario and is rare, but it has happened several times!
Doing this on older vehicles (1975 & older) did not result in much damage to the vehicle but it could blow a diode or a regulator if the conditions were right. Doing this on newer vehicles could potentially damage a lot of electronic components and may not even properly work because of the electrical system design, causing you to buy a new alternator when something else was the problem. Doing this on 2000 and later vehicles will damage expensive electronic components and render the car useless until you take out a second mortgage on your home to pay for the repairs!
The proper and inexpensive way to check the alternator on the vehicle is to use a voltmeter or Multimeter
. Set the voltmeter on the 20 or 50-volt range (depending on the meters range selection) and measure the battery voltage across the battery terminals. A fully charged battery should read about 12.5 volts. Start the vehicle and check it again and it should read about 1 volt higher or 13.5 volts. If the battery is low due to cranking the engine and not being charged, then put a battery charger on it to build it back up to full charge, then conduct the test. If the battery won’t build up, then the battery may be your problem and will need replacing. If the battery is good but won’t show the 1 volt increase after starting the engine, then the problem is likely the alternator and you’ll need to pull it and take it to get tested and repaired or replaced.
You can find cheap voltmeters or ‘multi-meters’ just about everywhere, like part store chains, the large variety stores like WalMart Target and Sears and the electronic stores. Prices range from about $10.00 on up, depending on features and quality. You don’t need much, just any small meter will do. A Digital Multimeter is a little more expensive but easier to read. Most mechanics will buy a heavy-duty digital multi-meters unit that costs around $200. As you can see, you can spend as much as you want to on a meter, so go one and check your alternator the right way!
To sum this up, my advice on pulling the battery cable when the engine is running is ‘don’t do it!’ If you won’t heed my advice and you are going to do it anyway on older vehicles, then for your own safety, wear safety glasses, a face shield and a rubber apron to protect yourself, just in case the battery explodes!
BOOM! Get the picture?
This is another old-school no-no! First and foremost, this was an unsafe procedure at anytime, let alone being used years ago. If you should be the unfortunate one who had a leaky battery or one that was being overcharged, building up gasses above the battery and then when removing the battery cables, you created a spark, it would cause the battery to explode in your face, throwing acid in your eyes and all over you and everything else. This of course is the worst-case scenario and is rare, but it has happened several times!
Doing this on older vehicles (1975 & older) did not result in much damage to the vehicle but it could blow a diode or a regulator if the conditions were right. Doing this on newer vehicles could potentially damage a lot of electronic components and may not even properly work because of the electrical system design, causing you to buy a new alternator when something else was the problem. Doing this on 2000 and later vehicles will damage expensive electronic components and render the car useless until you take out a second mortgage on your home to pay for the repairs!
The proper and inexpensive way to check the alternator on the vehicle is to use a voltmeter or Multimeter
. Set the voltmeter on the 20 or 50-volt range (depending on the meters range selection) and measure the battery voltage across the battery terminals. A fully charged battery should read about 12.5 volts. Start the vehicle and check it again and it should read about 1 volt higher or 13.5 volts. If the battery is low due to cranking the engine and not being charged, then put a battery charger on it to build it back up to full charge, then conduct the test. If the battery won’t build up, then the battery may be your problem and will need replacing. If the battery is good but won’t show the 1 volt increase after starting the engine, then the problem is likely the alternator and you’ll need to pull it and take it to get tested and repaired or replaced.You can find cheap voltmeters or ‘multi-meters’ just about everywhere, like part store chains, the large variety stores like WalMart Target and Sears and the electronic stores. Prices range from about $10.00 on up, depending on features and quality. You don’t need much, just any small meter will do. A Digital Multimeter
is a little more expensive but easier to read. Most mechanics will buy a heavy-duty digital multi-meters unit that costs around $200. As you can see, you can spend as much as you want to on a meter, so go one and check your alternator the right way!To sum this up, my advice on pulling the battery cable when the engine is running is ‘don’t do it!’ If you won’t heed my advice and you are going to do it anyway on older vehicles, then for your own safety, wear safety glasses, a face shield and a rubber apron to protect yourself, just in case the battery explodes!
BOOM! Get the picture?
Monday, August 9, 2010
Heads-up on Buying Alternators
When you have a bad alternator and choose to buy a new or rebuild from a parts store, make sure it's all there!
Today someone brought in a new or rebuilt alternator they had purchased, that didn't have a pulley on it. They had returned their last alternator, that was defective, to one parts store chain, got a refund and went to another chain and got this one without a pulley, then came in to my shop looking for a pulley for it. Unfortunately, I didn't have the correct pulley and since he didn't want to wait to order one, I had to send him on his way.
This is not an uncommon practice among suppliers of alternators as one alternator may fit several different vehicles but will have different pulleys depending on the application. This way stores only have to stock one unit instead of eight or ten units to fit all the applications. His alternator fit a 98 Ford F series pickup with a V-6. It appeared that it would also fit other years of Ford pickups, Rangers and Explorers among others.
So before you turn that core in, open the box and make sure that it's all there as you may have to swap the pulley! If it were me, I'd suggest keeping the core until you have installed the new unit and made sure it's working. Loosing your original core on the outset can cause you major headaches in the long run, especially if you have to return the new unit.
Today someone brought in a new or rebuilt alternator they had purchased, that didn't have a pulley on it. They had returned their last alternator, that was defective, to one parts store chain, got a refund and went to another chain and got this one without a pulley, then came in to my shop looking for a pulley for it. Unfortunately, I didn't have the correct pulley and since he didn't want to wait to order one, I had to send him on his way.
This is not an uncommon practice among suppliers of alternators as one alternator may fit several different vehicles but will have different pulleys depending on the application. This way stores only have to stock one unit instead of eight or ten units to fit all the applications. His alternator fit a 98 Ford F series pickup with a V-6. It appeared that it would also fit other years of Ford pickups, Rangers and Explorers among others.
So before you turn that core in, open the box and make sure that it's all there as you may have to swap the pulley! If it were me, I'd suggest keeping the core until you have installed the new unit and made sure it's working. Loosing your original core on the outset can cause you major headaches in the long run, especially if you have to return the new unit.
Wednesday, August 4, 2010
I had to tap on the Starter to get it to work!
I get this all the time. People will bring in their Starter with anything from a few spots of chipped paint, to beat it up with a hammer so bad that there are no usable parts left! Seriously! A guy came in to my shop a couple of months ago that had a starter that was so deformed from beating it with a hammer that it was nothing but scrap. No salvageable parts at all! And he was the type of guy that had no money and had bought a defective starter from a salvage, to replace his bad one and wanted me to fix it too!
Tapping or hammering on starters is old school and something that went out in the 1970’s. Let me explain what tapping on the unit does and why it had helped in the past. Usually with most starters, if a little moisture gets in the housing and rusts up the brushes and brush holders or the brushes are about worn out, tapping will sometimes free them up a bit, letting them make enough contact to make the starter work temporarily. That’s all tapping will do! It is no magic formula to fix anything, doesn’t help with dead spots or other problems that it may have and is only a ‘Temporary’ measure to get you home or to the mechanic! If tapping on the unit doesn’t offer instant results then there are other problems and all the hammering in the world will not make it work. It’ll just destroy the unit!
The problem is, as with most people, if they tap on it and get it to work, instead of pulling it off and getting it repaired when they get home, they keep hammering on it, more and more until they’ve beat the hell out of it. All the time this is causing internal damage as the brushes keep excessively arcing the copper off the commutator and ruining the armature, also deforming the case changing armature clearance to cause possible dragging and shorting out the windings if they are hitting the solenoid. Now their repair will have doubled in price due to the additional damage! I estimated that each hammer blow costs the customer anywhere from 50 cents to a dollar in added repair expenses, depending on the design and cost of the unit!
Now with all the smaller designed units of today, many of them have permanent magnets instead of field coils. They can shatter easily with just one misplaced blow to the case. Many replacement parts for these are not available and completely ruin the starter and without a salvage starter with good donor parts, it is not repairable and will have to be replaced with a new unit! If the parts are available, the cost of repair can exceed the cost of a new unit, so there’s a no win situation!
So, my advice, put the hammer back in the toolbox and get out the wrenches, pull the starter off and take it to the repair shop! If you’re broke down out on the road and need to try something to get you home or to the repair shop, lightly tap on only the back end of the starter and not the side case or the solenoid. That’s where the brushes generally are anyway and where you can do the most good. (The back end of the starter is opposite the nose, which is usually stuck into the bell housing. It is the part that protrudes furthest away from the mounting bracket.)
When I rebuild starters I only charge for the parts and labor that I do and not a whole unit price, so if your rebuilder doesn’t charge a large flat rate for unit repair, not hammering on your starter and pulling it off and getting it repaired at the first sign of trouble, will save you money in the long run!
Tapping or hammering on starters is old school and something that went out in the 1970’s. Let me explain what tapping on the unit does and why it had helped in the past. Usually with most starters, if a little moisture gets in the housing and rusts up the brushes and brush holders or the brushes are about worn out, tapping will sometimes free them up a bit, letting them make enough contact to make the starter work temporarily. That’s all tapping will do! It is no magic formula to fix anything, doesn’t help with dead spots or other problems that it may have and is only a ‘Temporary’ measure to get you home or to the mechanic! If tapping on the unit doesn’t offer instant results then there are other problems and all the hammering in the world will not make it work. It’ll just destroy the unit!
The problem is, as with most people, if they tap on it and get it to work, instead of pulling it off and getting it repaired when they get home, they keep hammering on it, more and more until they’ve beat the hell out of it. All the time this is causing internal damage as the brushes keep excessively arcing the copper off the commutator and ruining the armature, also deforming the case changing armature clearance to cause possible dragging and shorting out the windings if they are hitting the solenoid. Now their repair will have doubled in price due to the additional damage! I estimated that each hammer blow costs the customer anywhere from 50 cents to a dollar in added repair expenses, depending on the design and cost of the unit!
Now with all the smaller designed units of today, many of them have permanent magnets instead of field coils. They can shatter easily with just one misplaced blow to the case. Many replacement parts for these are not available and completely ruin the starter and without a salvage starter with good donor parts, it is not repairable and will have to be replaced with a new unit! If the parts are available, the cost of repair can exceed the cost of a new unit, so there’s a no win situation!
So, my advice, put the hammer back in the toolbox and get out the wrenches, pull the starter off and take it to the repair shop! If you’re broke down out on the road and need to try something to get you home or to the repair shop, lightly tap on only the back end of the starter and not the side case or the solenoid. That’s where the brushes generally are anyway and where you can do the most good. (The back end of the starter is opposite the nose, which is usually stuck into the bell housing. It is the part that protrudes furthest away from the mounting bracket.)
When I rebuild starters I only charge for the parts and labor that I do and not a whole unit price, so if your rebuilder doesn’t charge a large flat rate for unit repair, not hammering on your starter and pulling it off and getting it repaired at the first sign of trouble, will save you money in the long run!
Friday, July 23, 2010
My Business Pet Peeves
Here is a list of my 'Pet Peeves' in the starter and alternator repair business. You may look at these items and say "I've done that!" or "What's wrong with that?" So in the future, I will discuss each one of these on a separate post to explain in more detail the what's wrong with them and why!
1, Tapping or hammering on starters to get them to work.
2, Pulling the battery cable off to check alternator.
3, People who expect you to know how much their repair will cost.
4, Working on 2000 and later vehicles.
5, Describing a starter malfunction as ‘doesn’t engage’.
6, People who disassemble their own unit and then want me to fix it.
I may add to this list if I think of anything!
1, Tapping or hammering on starters to get them to work.
2, Pulling the battery cable off to check alternator.
3, People who expect you to know how much their repair will cost.
4, Working on 2000 and later vehicles.
5, Describing a starter malfunction as ‘doesn’t engage’.
6, People who disassemble their own unit and then want me to fix it.
I may add to this list if I think of anything!
Tuesday, July 20, 2010
Poor Quality, Part 3, 92 Dynasty Alternator
7/19/10
Today, this 'part store chain' rebuilt alternator, off of a 92 Dodge Dynasty came in with blown diodes in the rectifier. Two of the stator leads that were connected to the rectifier were loose, or I should say the threads of the screws were tight but the screws were not tightened down against the leads causing loose connections and failure of the unit. I tried to tighten the screws down, but they wouldn't even turn!
To compound the problem, this customer has been diagnosed with cancer and had limited funds. Even though I tried to help him save money and I got his unit fixed economically, he would have not had to work in the heat, pulling and reinstalling his unit and could have saved himself some money, if some S-O-B had done their job properly when they assembled the unit! This was blatant incompetence and I would have fired the employee who assembled this unit!
The circumstances of this job really pissed me off, almost enough to name the store which it was purchased, but I won't because 'rebuilds' from all the chain stores are all bad in my opinion, because they are not held to the same quality standards as new units! It's getting harder and harder to find quality units and parts, even new ones!
Today, this 'part store chain' rebuilt alternator, off of a 92 Dodge Dynasty came in with blown diodes in the rectifier. Two of the stator leads that were connected to the rectifier were loose, or I should say the threads of the screws were tight but the screws were not tightened down against the leads causing loose connections and failure of the unit. I tried to tighten the screws down, but they wouldn't even turn!
To compound the problem, this customer has been diagnosed with cancer and had limited funds. Even though I tried to help him save money and I got his unit fixed economically, he would have not had to work in the heat, pulling and reinstalling his unit and could have saved himself some money, if some S-O-B had done their job properly when they assembled the unit! This was blatant incompetence and I would have fired the employee who assembled this unit!
The circumstances of this job really pissed me off, almost enough to name the store which it was purchased, but I won't because 'rebuilds' from all the chain stores are all bad in my opinion, because they are not held to the same quality standards as new units! It's getting harder and harder to find quality units and parts, even new ones!
Poor Quality, Part 2, Prestolite Marine Alternator
7/9/10
Here's an example of someone hiring an idiot, who has no business working on anything, who worked on this customers boat and alternator and the results.
A customer brought me a Prestolite Marine alternator today that had a loud whining noise and was overcharging! After partial disassembly, I discovered that someone made a two inch jumper wire and by-passed the regulator, full fielding the alternator making it run at full charge! I have no idea why this was done!??? Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
Since the customer wanted new bearings, I completely disassembled the unit and found the stator (ring of windings) was toast and the rectifier was damaged, because of running it at full charge. This fo-paw (or is that spelled 'faux-paux') cost the customer over $150.00 in repairs!
Can somebody tell me how to spell 'fo-paw'?
Here's an example of someone hiring an idiot, who has no business working on anything, who worked on this customers boat and alternator and the results.
A customer brought me a Prestolite Marine alternator today that had a loud whining noise and was overcharging! After partial disassembly, I discovered that someone made a two inch jumper wire and by-passed the regulator, full fielding the alternator making it run at full charge! I have no idea why this was done!??? Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!
Since the customer wanted new bearings, I completely disassembled the unit and found the stator (ring of windings) was toast and the rectifier was damaged, because of running it at full charge. This fo-paw (or is that spelled 'faux-paux') cost the customer over $150.00 in repairs!
Can somebody tell me how to spell 'fo-paw'?
Monday, July 12, 2010
'Make-shift' causes problems down the road
A guy brought me a starter today that was supposed to be off an International diesel farm tractor. It had a broken drive end housing (nose). We spent over a half hour trying to figure out what he had so I could order him another starter, as there was extensive damage and it would be a costly repair.
After a lot of comparison which I don't care to go into, we determined that the starter he brought me was not right for the tractor but was the one that was working on it. The correct starter had the wrong geometry on the mount housing to fit the tractor.
I'm not sure who or how this starter was put together, but it was obviously a make-shift job as the armature shaft had been cut off and poorly hand ground to fit. This was a contributing factor to the failure of the starter.
I've ordered a new housing for it and if it matches I should be able to repair his starter but it will be at the tune of about $350.00 due to how bad of shape it's in because it needs to be completely gutted! I could of probably got him a replacement cheaper but because I couldn't identify it, I couldn't order it!
I'm not sure how all this came together from a make-shift starter, to International Harvester assembling the tractor with several different engines or transmissions, to somebody swaping an engine or transmission during the life of the tractor. All I know is that the customer has an expensive fix coming!
7/15/10
Update; I was able to get the correct replacement housing and properly rebuild this starter. This was the most I've ever had to charge for this model of Delco starter!
After a lot of comparison which I don't care to go into, we determined that the starter he brought me was not right for the tractor but was the one that was working on it. The correct starter had the wrong geometry on the mount housing to fit the tractor.
I'm not sure who or how this starter was put together, but it was obviously a make-shift job as the armature shaft had been cut off and poorly hand ground to fit. This was a contributing factor to the failure of the starter.
I've ordered a new housing for it and if it matches I should be able to repair his starter but it will be at the tune of about $350.00 due to how bad of shape it's in because it needs to be completely gutted! I could of probably got him a replacement cheaper but because I couldn't identify it, I couldn't order it!
I'm not sure how all this came together from a make-shift starter, to International Harvester assembling the tractor with several different engines or transmissions, to somebody swaping an engine or transmission during the life of the tractor. All I know is that the customer has an expensive fix coming!
7/15/10
Update; I was able to get the correct replacement housing and properly rebuild this starter. This was the most I've ever had to charge for this model of Delco starter!
Wednesday, July 7, 2010
Poor Quality, Part 1= Expensive Repairs
I will be posting quality issues that I come across under 'Poor Quality' posts!
Today, a guy brought me a 12V refueling pump that goes on a refueling tank in the back of a pickup. I don't generally work on these and can't get parts for them but I accepted the job as long as he pays, whether I can fix it or it works or not. The reason I charge this way on odd-ball items like this is that I can get a lot of time in working on stuff like this with no compensation for my time!
The problem with this unit was that moisture got inside the motor and behind the field magnets and lifted them loose from the case and against the armature locking it in place. The reason moisture got into the motor was because of the poor workmanship from the factory when it was new. Who ever assembled the unit, allowed the O-ring seal to get pinched off of one side and not properly sealed the unit.
This repair cost the customer 2 & 1/2 hours labor to repair. If proper care had been taken at the factory when it was assembled, the customer wouldn't have had the extra cost!
Today, a guy brought me a 12V refueling pump that goes on a refueling tank in the back of a pickup. I don't generally work on these and can't get parts for them but I accepted the job as long as he pays, whether I can fix it or it works or not. The reason I charge this way on odd-ball items like this is that I can get a lot of time in working on stuff like this with no compensation for my time!
The problem with this unit was that moisture got inside the motor and behind the field magnets and lifted them loose from the case and against the armature locking it in place. The reason moisture got into the motor was because of the poor workmanship from the factory when it was new. Who ever assembled the unit, allowed the O-ring seal to get pinched off of one side and not properly sealed the unit.
This repair cost the customer 2 & 1/2 hours labor to repair. If proper care had been taken at the factory when it was assembled, the customer wouldn't have had the extra cost!
Tuesday, July 6, 2010
Welcome to my blog!
A little about my background: I have owned and operated a small alternator and starter repair shop for over 11 years and have repaired everything from little jet-ski and ATV starters to the huge diesel starters and alternators. Though I have not seen everything out there, I have worked on a large variety of units, which is anything I could get parts for. First and foremost, I believe in quality when I do repairs and doing a job right the first time. I ‘hate’ returns or to have to do anything twice!
When I was younger I operated construction machinery and farm equipment and have had some experience repairing such equipment. My auto mechanic schooling and experience was from the late 1970’s and though it has helped me in my current business, I’m not a mechanic and know little when it comes to all the computer systems of the vehicles produced today! Also, I collect antique farm tractors and engines and enjoy tinkering with them so that has given me further experience with older equipment!
I decided to write this blog to help people with their starter, alternator and generator problems and give them advice as to how to check their system and also how to relate their problems to their mechanic or rebuilder. I also hope my local customers read this to help them diagnose their problem, so they may properly be able to explain their problem when they bring in the unit!
So in the coming months I will be posting tips and advice and will try to answer questions when and if I can. I will also post some how-to’s and things not to do that can damage your units or systems, along with some of the dumb or ridicules things some of my customers have said or done!
Note; I will only offer advice related to my field and since I’m not a certified mechanic and have no ready access to information spanning the vast variety of vehicles computer systems and electrical systems, I can NOT advise you and tell you how to fix your car! Questions like these I can’t answer and will only send a generic answer stating the above or no answer at all. General questions may not receive an answer either, as there are so many different designs of units out there and a general answers won’t cover it. I will also not cover anything to do with ‘wind powered’ generators as that is a different subject and can be found on different sites or blogs!
If you should ask me a question about a specific unit, you will need to provide me with detailed information such as make, model, year and engine size if you’re asking about a vehicle. When it comes to other equipment, as much information as you can provide will help but I still may not be able to look it up. Info like John Deere 4430 tractor or Case 580K Backhoe may suffice but I may need more depending on the application and if there is any split year units on the machine. It may also take me a few days to reply as I am very busy and it may take some time to look things up!
When I was younger I operated construction machinery and farm equipment and have had some experience repairing such equipment. My auto mechanic schooling and experience was from the late 1970’s and though it has helped me in my current business, I’m not a mechanic and know little when it comes to all the computer systems of the vehicles produced today! Also, I collect antique farm tractors and engines and enjoy tinkering with them so that has given me further experience with older equipment!
I decided to write this blog to help people with their starter, alternator and generator problems and give them advice as to how to check their system and also how to relate their problems to their mechanic or rebuilder. I also hope my local customers read this to help them diagnose their problem, so they may properly be able to explain their problem when they bring in the unit!
So in the coming months I will be posting tips and advice and will try to answer questions when and if I can. I will also post some how-to’s and things not to do that can damage your units or systems, along with some of the dumb or ridicules things some of my customers have said or done!
Note; I will only offer advice related to my field and since I’m not a certified mechanic and have no ready access to information spanning the vast variety of vehicles computer systems and electrical systems, I can NOT advise you and tell you how to fix your car! Questions like these I can’t answer and will only send a generic answer stating the above or no answer at all. General questions may not receive an answer either, as there are so many different designs of units out there and a general answers won’t cover it. I will also not cover anything to do with ‘wind powered’ generators as that is a different subject and can be found on different sites or blogs!
If you should ask me a question about a specific unit, you will need to provide me with detailed information such as make, model, year and engine size if you’re asking about a vehicle. When it comes to other equipment, as much information as you can provide will help but I still may not be able to look it up. Info like John Deere 4430 tractor or Case 580K Backhoe may suffice but I may need more depending on the application and if there is any split year units on the machine. It may also take me a few days to reply as I am very busy and it may take some time to look things up!
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