Poor Quality, Part 4, Dodge Diesel Starter.

This starter, a poor quality rebuild from a parts store, came in with broken switch terminal on the solenoid. After going to all the work to repair this terminal, the solenoid chattered when testing it, indicating that the hold-in coil was bad. Other than a continuity test with the coils, which I performed before doing the repair, I couldn't test the solenoid without doing the repair first.

Now I had to tear the whole starter all apart again and replace the solenoid assembly with one off a core unit. (The solenoid on this particular unit is incorporated into the middle body of the starter and not easily replaceable by just removing and installing outside the unit!) This coupled with the fact that most of the rubber seals were left out by the previous rebuilder and the poor quality of his work, ended up costing my customer 2 & 1/2 times what the initial repair would have. If this had been a quality rebuilt unit, my customer may not have had to bring it to me for repair in the first place!

This is why I'm so down on parts store rebuilds!

Heads-up 2, Antique Tractor Starters

This is in regards to the old Delco screw drive tractor starters that were manufactured pre-1960's.

The idea for this post came in the shop the other day. It was a starter off an old 1940's to 1950's Farmall 'H' or 'M' model tractor. Someone had pulled this starter off a salvage tractor for my customer and he brought it in to be checked. He had tried it and it didn't work.

As it turned out, there was nothing wrong with the starter except the the person who removed the battery cable from the post (terminal, stud or whatever you'd call it) on the starter housing had twisted the post and tore off the field coil terminals inside, breaking the internal connection. Fortunately, I was able to bent the ends around enough to re-solder them to the post and repaired his unit. The rest of the unit looked like it had been recently rebuilt.

The problem here is in the design. There is no square shoulder on the stud (or post) to prevent it from turning, so care must be taken when removing the cable. It is usually best to use a back-up wrench when loosening and removing the top nut and cable. This goes for tightening it also, as turning the stud much more than 10 degrees will start tearing off the coil ends internally.

When I repair these starters, I use a dremel tool or a hack saw and cut a slot in the top of the post, inline with the starter body. This makes it easier to see if the post is turning and allows the use of a screwdriver to hold it, if needed!

How Much Does My Repair Cost?

I'm posting this more for the benefit of my local customers, as different rebuilding companies charge differently for their repairs!

So many people come into my shop asking how much their repair will cost. The problem is, I CAN'T answer that question on the phone or just over the counter. I understand that most people want to save money and are concerned how much everything costs, but for my type of business, that question is difficult to impossible to answer.

The reason for this is that I only charge for the parts I install and the labor, no more, no less. Since I have no idea what is wrong with each unit until I have disassembled and tested all the components, I don't know how many parts will need repaired or replaced, or how long the repair will take. Some units come in all corroded up that it takes twice as long to repair as a similar unit in good condition. Granted there are some common units that I have seen a lot of and that I have an idea on a rough estimate on the repair cost, but it is a very small percentage of what's out there and I'm seeing fewer and fewer of these units as they are getting older and most of the vehicles they are on have gone to the junkyard.

Some companies charge a flat rate for their repair and can give you an exact price, but is this fair and just what are you getting for your money? For an example take a Nippondenso alternator that was used on Dodge/Chrysler products through the 1990's and early 2000's. After about 150,000 miles they start to fail. If they are relatively clean (not oil soaked) the reason they stop working is the brushes wear out and that's all! These units (originals, not aftermarkets) have heavy duty bearings that generally last 300,000 to 400,000 miles, there's no internal regulator to fail (it's in the vehicles computer) and the other parts seldom ever fail! People will go to a parts store and pay around 160 dollars for a poorer quality replacement unit. I can repair this alternator for about 20 bucks and it will last as long as a new one. If this alternator was completely burned up, it would cost well over 200 dollars to repair so that's why I can't answer what it will cost until I have examined the unit.

If your unit only needed something minor and the repair only costs 20 or 30 bucks then you save money. If you have burned up your unit or it's all corroded, then you should have to pay more for the repair. This is the fairest way to charge customers for a repair.

To sum this up, unless you bring your unit into my shop and allow me to properly test it, I can't and won't know how much your repair will cost!

Pulling Battery Cables To Check The Alternator

What I’m talking about is the old practice of pulling a battery cable off the battery while the engine is running to see if the engine dies due to the alternator not charging.

This is another old-school no-no! First and foremost, this was an unsafe procedure at anytime, let alone being used years ago. If you should be the unfortunate one who had a leaky battery or one that was being overcharged, building up gasses above the battery and then when removing the battery cables, you created a spark, it would cause the battery to explode in your face, throwing acid in your eyes and all over you and everything else. This of course is the worst-case scenario and is rare, but it has happened several times!

Doing this on older vehicles (1975 & older) did not result in much damage to the vehicle but it could blow a diode or a regulator if the conditions were right. Doing this on newer vehicles could potentially damage a lot of electronic components and may not even properly work because of the electrical system design, causing you to buy a new alternator when something else was the problem. Doing this on 2000 and later vehicles will damage expensive electronic components and render the car useless until you take out a second mortgage on your home to pay for the repairs!

The proper and inexpensive way to check the alternator on the vehicle is to use a voltmeter or Multimeter. Set the voltmeter on the 20 or 50-volt range (depending on the meters range selection) and measure the battery voltage across the battery terminals. A fully charged battery should read about 12.5 volts. Start the vehicle and check it again and it should read about 1 volt higher or 13.5 volts. If the battery is low due to cranking the engine and not being charged, then put a battery charger on it to build it back up to full charge, then conduct the test. If the battery won’t build up, then the battery may be your problem and will need replacing. If the battery is good but won’t show the 1 volt increase after starting the engine, then the problem is likely the alternator and you’ll need to pull it and take it to get tested and repaired or replaced.

You can find cheap voltmeters or ‘multi-meters’ just about everywhere, like part store chains, the large variety stores like WalMart Target and Sears and the electronic stores. Prices range from about $10.00 on up, depending on features and quality. You don’t need much, just any small meter will do. A Digital Multimeter is a little more expensive but easier to read. Most mechanics will buy a heavy-duty digital multi-meters unit that costs around $200. As you can see, you can spend as much as you want to on a meter, so go one and check your alternator the right way!

To sum this up, my advice on pulling the battery cable when the engine is running is ‘don’t do it!’ If you won’t heed my advice and you are going to do it anyway on older vehicles, then for your own safety, wear safety glasses, a face shield and a rubber apron to protect yourself, just in case the battery explodes!

BOOM! Get the picture?

Heads-up on Buying Alternators

When you have a bad alternator and choose to buy a new or rebuild from a parts store, make sure it's all there!

Today someone brought in a new or rebuilt alternator they had purchased, that didn't have a pulley on it. They had returned their last alternator, that was defective, to one parts store chain, got a refund and went to another chain and got this one without a pulley, then came in to my shop looking for a pulley for it. Unfortunately, I didn't have the correct pulley and since he didn't want to wait to order one, I had to send him on his way.

This is not an uncommon practice among suppliers of alternators as one alternator may fit several different vehicles but will have different pulleys depending on the application. This way stores only have to stock one unit instead of eight or ten units to fit all the applications. His alternator fit a 98 Ford F series pickup with a V-6. It appeared that it would also fit other years of Ford pickups, Rangers and Explorers among others.

So before you turn that core in, open the box and make sure that it's all there as you may have to swap the pulley! If it were me, I'd suggest keeping the core until you have installed the new unit and made sure it's working. Loosing your original core on the outset can cause you major headaches in the long run, especially if you have to return the new unit.

I had to tap on the Starter to get it to work!

I get this all the time. People will bring in their Starter with anything from a few spots of chipped paint, to beat it up with a hammer so bad that there are no usable parts left! Seriously! A guy came in to my shop a couple of months ago that had a starter that was so deformed from beating it with a hammer that it was nothing but scrap. No salvageable parts at all! And he was the type of guy that had no money and had bought a defective starter from a salvage, to replace his bad one and wanted me to fix it too!

Tapping or hammering on starters is old school and something that went out in the 1970’s. Let me explain what tapping on the unit does and why it had helped in the past. Usually with most starters, if a little moisture gets in the housing and rusts up the brushes and brush holders or the brushes are about worn out, tapping will sometimes free them up a bit, letting them make enough contact to make the starter work temporarily. That’s all tapping will do! It is no magic formula to fix anything, doesn’t help with dead spots or other problems that it may have and is only a ‘Temporary’ measure to get you home or to the mechanic! If tapping on the unit doesn’t offer instant results then there are other problems and all the hammering in the world will not make it work. It’ll just destroy the unit!

The problem is, as with most people, if they tap on it and get it to work, instead of pulling it off and getting it repaired when they get home, they keep hammering on it, more and more until they’ve beat the hell out of it. All the time this is causing internal damage as the brushes keep excessively arcing the copper off the commutator and ruining the armature, also deforming the case changing armature clearance to cause possible dragging and shorting out the windings if they are hitting the solenoid. Now their repair will have doubled in price due to the additional damage! I estimated that each hammer blow costs the customer anywhere from 50 cents to a dollar in added repair expenses, depending on the design and cost of the unit!

Now with all the smaller designed units of today, many of them have permanent magnets instead of field coils. They can shatter easily with just one misplaced blow to the case. Many replacement parts for these are not available and completely ruin the starter and without a salvage starter with good donor parts, it is not repairable and will have to be replaced with a new unit! If the parts are available, the cost of repair can exceed the cost of a new unit, so there’s a no win situation!

So, my advice, put the hammer back in the toolbox and get out the wrenches, pull the starter off and take it to the repair shop! If you’re broke down out on the road and need to try something to get you home or to the repair shop, lightly tap on only the back end of the starter and not the side case or the solenoid. That’s where the brushes generally are anyway and where you can do the most good. (The back end of the starter is opposite the nose, which is usually stuck into the bell housing. It is the part that protrudes furthest away from the mounting bracket.)

When I rebuild starters I only charge for the parts and labor that I do and not a whole unit price, so if your rebuilder doesn’t charge a large flat rate for unit repair, not hammering on your starter and pulling it off and getting it repaired at the first sign of trouble, will save you money in the long run!